raidersofthelostscent

  • Subscribe to our RSS feed.
  • Twitter
  • StumbleUpon
  • Reddit
  • Facebook
  • Digg
Showing posts with label Robert Piguet. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Robert Piguet. Show all posts

Thursday, 7 January 2016

"Then and Now": Bandit, de Robert Piguet.

Posted on January 07, 2016 by niten



If you love "leathery" scents, you should know Bandit. 
Alongside with Cabochard (Grès), Aramis, Knize Ten, Jolie Madame (Balmain), Cuir de Russie (Chanel), and a few others, Bandit is one of the most famous "leathery" scents ever made.
It's one of  the greatest perfumes (together with Fracas) produced by Robert Piguet, created during the Forties by Germaine Cellier.
There are a lot of articles about Bandit (and about Robert Piguet's perfumes) so if you want read reviews, you will find as usual a lot of references at the end of the article.
A bit of recent History: after many glorious decades, the "Robert Piguet Parfums" brand was sold in 1985 to Alfin Fragrances, then sold again in 1995 to Fashion Fragrances & Cosmetics Ltd, which currently own the brand. It took a certain amount of time to completely reformulate and relaunch the scents, in 1998, with the label of the "original formula, certified by Givaudan".
Recently, at the end of 2012, Bandit underwent a reformulation due to IFRA restriction laws.
These are the notes according to Robert Piguet website:
Top: galbanum, ylang
Middle: leather , jasmine
Base: Patchouli, oakmoss, vetyver

And here are the bottles used for this comparison "Then&Now", spanning nearly 35 years, from the end of 70s to 2015.
(if you are interested in Fracas comparison, see HERE )

1-1970s EdT (original RP Parfums)
2- 1980s EdT(Alfin Fragrances version)
3- 2012 EdP (modern, before reformulation)
4- 2015 EdP (modern after reformulation)

1- Late '70s bottle

2-  1980s

3- Year 2012 (modern version, pre-reformulation, batch 2E1) 

4- Year 2015 (modern version, identical bottle)

TESTS
All tests were performed in the same room, at the same temperature and time, on paper, skin, and heavy fabric.
The results are somewhat surprising: all samples smell different each other, although on different levels. You  have four different samples, and you got four different smellings. Please, don't mismatch my words: it's always Bandit, but with different nuances..
Instead of  speaking about single notes ("a peppery opening, followed by jasmine, etc...."), I'd prefer to putting evidence on diversities (and similarites) between samples. So:

1- The older one from the Seventies appears as a rich, creamy leather scent, with a lot of depth. Top notes are not so prominent, but the "leathery" drydown is heavy and magnificent. 
2- Similarly it happens with the sample from the Eighties, the only real difference being a sort of  apparent "dilution", but very similar to the previous one. Less brutal, less intense, more "diluted", but with no so many differences. 
3- The third sample from 2012 (modern, pre-reformulated) is pretty different, with a stronger floral/peppery opening and a quiet, although solid, leather core.
4- The fourth sample (reformulated, year 2015) is slightly different from the previous one. Curiously, I smell differences only in the topnotes, but not in the drydown, that's quite the same. In this fourth sample, topnotes are sharper and heavier than ever.
If you are interested mainly in "leather", you could prefer the first one;  if you are interested in a more complex, variegate scent, your choice should be the last one. 

Finally, there is no difference between EdT and EdP: longevity and sillage are the same. The leather drydown stands for at least 6-7 hours. Curiously, Bandit is one of those perfumes performing very well on any surface: paper, skin, and fabric.









---------------------------------------
According to... Gianni Bertetti.


(Gianni Bertetti, the living legend of vintage perfumes, narrates his story  here ) 
"I could say many things about this scent by Robert Piguet, since I have been selling it for 50 years: since a picture is worth a thousand words, here's to you a very rare 400ml EdT ancient bottle."

--------------------------------------

THE FINAL WORD 
by Luca Turin

"I'll start with a note of caution: I've owned several bottles of the original Bandit over the years, and this is not it. But read on. Reproducing modern versions of Germaine Cellier's masterpiece is both easy and hard; easy, because her perfumes had such bold, distinctive structures that even a pixelated version of Bandit, such as the last, dreadfully cheapened and traduced "original" version, was still recognizably the old scoundrel; hard, because Cellier was fond of using bases in her composition, to the horror of other perfumers. Bases are mini-perfumes, pre-packaged compositions that dispense you from reinventing the wheel every time you need a complex but recognizable note in your fragrance: peach, leather, amber, etc. Some, like Ambre83, Persicol, and Animalis, are so rich and so good that you wonder why nobody bottled them and sold them. The problem with Cellier's use of bases is that half of them have disappeared, so that even if the whole formula were to fall into your hands and you trekked to the address of the maker of Dianthiline12 in Grasse, you'd likely find a time-share development instead of a little fragrance factory. Modern reconstructions of Cellier's perfumes are above all a work of translation of the original formula into things you can actually identify and buy today. In my opinion, this can be positive: these perfumes always carried a sort of excess baggage to compensate for the starkness of the basic accord. If it can be done elegantly, a cleanup is in itself no bad thing. One just has to get used to the idea that, as vintage aircraft, what you see is a machine in which perhaps only th eserial number plate subsists from the original, and every spar and rivet has been made from scratch. This version of the 1947 original is a bit like a reconstructed Bell X-1 supersonic aircraft: sleek, beautifully done, and a mite too clean, as if ready for a movie shoot. But the magic is all there: bitter, dark yet fresh, beguiling without any softness, and still several unlit streets ahead of every other leather chypre around."

---------------------------------

similar "THEN & NOW" articles:
- FRACAS by Robert Piguet: side-by-side comparison
- Fahrenheit: 10 batch comparison
- Dior Homme: Yesterday and Today
- Dior Homme Intense: yesterday and today 
- Terre d'Hermes: yestrday and today.
- L'Instant de Guerlain Extreme: yesterday and today
- Habanita de Molinard : yesterday and today
-Azzaro pour Homme :then and now.

--------------------------------------
HOW TO RECOGNIZE
ROBERT PIGUET PARFUMS?
(since 1998)

by STICKERS
All modern bottles, produced since 1998, have a sticker on the bottom reporting: "Fashion Fragrances&Cosmetics Ltd", and:
1998-2004: "New York" address only.
2004-2009: "NY" plus "Amstelveen, Netherlands."
2010- current: "NY" plus "Thorigny sur Marne, France". Example:
NEW YORK address: years 1998-2004
----------------------------------
by  BATCHCODE
All modern bottles (since 2008) sport a 3-digit batchcode on the box and on the bottom of the bottle: the first number is the YEAR. 
Early bottles sport a longer batchcode. Example:
Batch 2E1 = year 2012

another example:
"Netherlands" sticker (2004-2009),
+ "9A1" batchcode painted on the bottom
= year 2009

----------------------------------
by CERTIFICATIONS
ALL modern boxes (since 1998) have a "certification by Givaudan" signed by President. Simply check his name:
1998-1999: Geoffrey W. Webster
2000-2003: Errol G.W. Stafford
2004-2014: Michael Carlos
Example:
President : Michael Carlos
= years 2004-2014

--------------------------
...and previous bottles?
Remember: old 1980s and 1990s box and bottles ("produced by Alfin") sport the word "BANDIT" in CAPITAL LETTERS.
Modern bottles since 1998 ("Fashion Fragrances & Cosmetics Ltd") sport the word "bandit" in lower-case letters instead. See the picture below:


BANDIT-DE-ROBERT-PIGUET-FOR-WOMEN-3-3-OZ-100-ML-EDT-SPRAY-IN-BOX-RARE
BANDIT in CAPITAL LETTERS,
End of 80s- Early 90s

"bandit" in lower-case letters,
since 1998

-------------------------------
and even before...
1960s

1970s

-------------------------

Year 1970

Year 1972 




Interested in Bandit? 
read here....

Perfume Shrine
Bois de Jasmin
Kafkaesque
Now Smell This
Yesterday's Perfume
The Scented Hound
Olfactoria's Travels 
PerfumeSmellingThings 
WhatMenShouldSmellLike



Read More
Posted in Bandit, Robert Piguet, Then&Now, vintage | No comments

Wednesday, 19 August 2015

"FRACAS" vs. "Fracas": side-by-side.

Posted on August 19, 2015 by niten




I love Fracas. It's one of the strongest, heaviest, most intense female scents, and it brings me back to my childhood.
"Fracas de Robert Piguet" is, since 1948, the epitome of tuberose. 
Actually, Fracas is the benchmark for all tuberose-based scents, yesterday and today.
You could read volumes about this perfume, searching on the net, so I'll not waste many words about it, because a lot of perfume experts have written very interesting reviews examining Fracas. You will find a list of interesting reviews at the end of this article. 
One of the most intriguing aspects about Fracas is its recent story: it was produced by historical "Robert Piguet Parfums" until the end of Seventies. Then, during 1985, a few Piguet scents (Fracas, Bandit...) were reformulated, produced and distributed under "Alfin Fragrances Inc.", a well-known american luxury firm, under its Swiss division "Orinter".
Two different bottles were produced by "Alfin/Orinter" : a transparent bottle (1985-1990) and an opaque black one (1990-1995).

"Alfin/Orinter" stopped Fracas production in 1995, and sold Robert Piguet Parfums to "Fashion Fragrances &Cosmetics Ltd". It took a certain amount of time to completely re-orchestrate the scent, and finally to relaunch it, in 1998, with the prestigious label of the "original Fracas formula, certified by Givaudan". Apparently, this new, certified scent underwent at least a couple of reformulations after year 2007, due to IFRA restrictions.
Searching all over the net, you will find a general consensus about the "rogue", "poor quality", "watered down", "deprecable" version produced by "Alfin/Orinter" (1985-1995), opposed to the new, back-to-original, magnificent, and "certified by Givaudan" version produced since 1998 (and -even more- to the legendary 1950s-1960s historical version).
Is it true? Did 1980s Fracas perform really so bad, compared to the new one? It's almost impossible to say, since "Alfin/Orinter" bottles from the 1980s are very, very rare, and almost impossible to find, so it's very difficult to perform a side-by-side comparison. 
Until now....
Well, I was incredibly lucky, because our beloved Gianni from Milan remembered to have an old Fracas tester, in the transparent bottle (the first one, produced during 1985-1990), stored in one of his basements. He generously borrowed it to me, to perform a side-by side comparison with a modern version produced by "Fashion Fragrances&Cosmetics Ltd" (actually, this "new" bottle is a year 2009 one).
In my opinion, this is the first time that someone put two different Fracas bottles side-by-side for testing. Let's go and see the results!


HERE ARE THE PLAYERS:


OLD BOX AND BOTTLE, first serie (1985-1990) (TESTED)
FRACAS first serie, Eau de Toilette, in a transparent bottle (years 1985-1990),
 produced and distributed by Alfin Fragrances Inc./Orinter

(note the word "FRACAS" in capital letters) (from E bay)

OLD BOX AND BOTTLE, second serie (1990-1995) (NOT TESTED)
(from E bay) Fracas, second serie, black bottle (years 1990-1995),
always produced by "Alfin Fragrances Inc" in a different box
and bottle (note the word Fracas in lowercase letters,
 and the production for "Orinter, Geneva, Switzerland" )

MODERN BOX AND BOTTLE (since 1998) (TESTED)
This is the modern "Fracas" Eau de Parfum black bottle, since 1998, produced by
"Fashion Fragrances&Cosmetics Ltd" and "certified by Givaudan".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

BOTTLES SIDE-BY-SIDE FOR TEST
old "Alfin Fragrances Inc."/"Orinter" Eau de Toilette bottle (1985-1990) on left.
modern "Fashion Fragrances&Cosmetics Ltd" Eau de Parfum bottle (year 2009) on right

Bottom of the bottles


Bottom of modern bottle (year 2009) used during the test 


Modern Fracas Eau de Parfum 
(since 1998, bottle in picture actually dated year 2009)

Older Fracas (1985-1990) Eau de Toilette

----------------------------------------------------------
The Olfactive Pyramid
 The Pyramid, according Robert Piguet Parfums.

--------------------------------------
MATERIALS AND METHODS

As usual, if you want to perform a serious test (single test or side-by-side), you should use at least three different surfaces, in order to have different conditions to compare. 1) Test on paper; 2) Test on skin; 3) Test on fabric.

Side-by-side with paper strips


Test on skin (I personally prefer the back of the hand)
side-by-side, both hands.
Test on fabric (side-by-side, two piece of same fabric)
Heavy fabric traps a lot of scent and performs very well.

-----------------------------------------
TESTS and RESULTS

Unusually, I compared an "Eau de Toilette" (old transparent bottle) with an "Eau de Parfum" (new black bottle) and the first big surprise is that there are not so many differences in longevity and sillage. Both performs almost identically. But let's say it honestly: if you know Fracas, you should know it's a real Top Performer, in both longevity and sillage. On paper strips and on fabric, both old and new versions "stand" for more than a week (!!!). 
Really, Fracas, old or new, is an intoxicating scent. If you love heavy, persistent floral scents, search no more. You have find it. Only old Balenciagas can perform in similar way. If you spray Fracas on any surface, stay sure it will remain for days. If you spray Fracas on your skin, a shower will not enough to remove it. The marvellous tuberose blast will remain stick on you, like an aromatic glue.
But what about the two versions? 
Let's check the tuberose first: actually, when you consider Fracas, you want the tuberose at its highest level. 
And I am pleased to say that no one will be disappointed. In both versions, old and new, tuberose performs exceptionally good and with the same strenght (no difference between EdT and EdP). In both cases, you smell unmistakably Fracas. You will recognize it immediately. Tuberose is a real smash in your face (or, in your nose). 
But is there any difference between old and new? Definitely yes! There are differences, but are subtle ones. Subtle differences between old and new are in the supporting notes (Jasmine, Violet, Bergamot, Musk....)
In the old transparent bottle produced by "Alfin/Orinter" the tuberose is literally surrounded by a "buttery" aura. Actually, you are smelling a tuberose submerged in a deep sea of butter. It's really pleasant, indeed, especially if you love "buttery" perfumes.
In the new formulation, on the contrary, the "buttery" notes, although present, quietly stand aside. 
The other difference (maybe derivating from the buttery note) is the sharpness.
The old bottle has softer notes -tuberose apart- and Violet, Bergamot and Jasmin appear almost smudged, "blurred", "overlapped", almost non recognizable each other.
The new formulation has different sharp notes, accurately separated each other; intense, clean, well defined. 
I'd say: notes sharp like razors.
If pictures say a thousand words, here are the examples:

old FRACAS, the transparent bottle from the Eighties: 
all notes in the background don't appear sharp, but almost "blurred"

old FRACAS, the transparent bottle from the Eighties: 
all notes in the background don't appear sharp, but almost blurred

And here is the new version: all notes are really sharp, not confused, not blurred.

New Fracas, in the modern black bottle:
 all notes in the background appear sharp, clean and refined
New Fracas, the modern black bottle: all notes in the background 
appear sharp, clean and refined

As a conclusion, I'd say both version are really, really good. When you talk about Fracas, you want essentially a tuberose at highest level.
And both version perform in an excellent way. 
Tuberose is magnificent both in old and new version.
In a nutshell, there are two mayor differences between old and new Fracas. A) the creamy aspect, much more relevant in the old version; B) the sharpness of single notes, more relevant in the new version.
It is possible that the high "creaminess" in the old version blurs all other notes; if it's true, the lower creaminess in the new version allow to appreciate better the jasmine, the violet, the bergamot still present in the scent.
What's the best of two? In this case, there is no better and no worse. 
I feel very comfortable with both and don't have a particular preference.
If you prefer "a buttery tuberose", try to find an old bottle.
If you prefer "a sharp tuberose", with all notes perfectly recognizable, go for the new. 
In any formulation, Fracas is still a benchmark in perfumery.



--------------------------------------------------
BONUS SECTION

HOW TO RECOGNIZE "Fracas" BOTTLES

----------------------------------------------------

by % VOLUME

the old "Alfin/Orinter" black bottles (produced in 1990-1995) are very similar to the modern ones, BUT have the volume percentage on the front of the box, bottom right.
(in this case "90% Vol.")


On the contrary, new, modern boxes (since 1998) 
have NO indication about percentage on the front of the box.




-----------------------------------------------------
by STICKERS

All modern bottles (since 1998) have a sticker on the bottom reporting:
"Fashion Fragrances&Cosmetics Ltd", and:
1998-2004: "New York" address only.
2004-2009: "NY" plus "Amstelveen, Netherlands."
2010- to date: "NY" plus "Thorigny sur Marne, France"


First type sticker: "New York" address only, 1998-2004

Second-type sticker, adding address: "Amstelveen, Netherlands"
= years 2004-2009

Third type sticker: 
Address: "Thorigny sur Marne, France" 
(since years 2009- 2010)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by CERTIFICATIONS

ALL modern boxes (since 1998) have a 
"certification by Givaudan" signed by President.
1998-1999: Geoffrey W. Webster
2000-2003: Errol G.W. Stafford
2004-2014: Michael Carlos

The FIRST box =  years 1998-1999
Signed by Geoffrey R. Webster

The SECOND box =  years 2000-2003
Signed by E.G.W. Stafford


The THIRD box =  years 2004-2014
signed by  Michael Carlos

(from Ebay) another bottle signed 
by "Michael Carlos" (= after 2004)

---------------------------------------
GENERIC CLUES


Remember: until 2004-2005 only the short list of ingredients was reported on the box ("Alcohol, Perfume, Water, colorants....")
After 2005, the long list of ingredients/allergens became mandatory.


note the SHORT list of ingredients, used before 2005

note the LONG list of ingredients/allergens, 
adopted after 2004-2005

-------------------------------------------------

Interested in Fracas?
read here..... 

Robert Piguet perfumes blog 
Yesterday's Perfumes
Into the Gloss
NowSmellThis
New York Times (by Chandler Burr)
Boisdejasmin
Kafkaesque Blog 
The Candy Perfume Boy
Olfactoria's Travels
The Non Blonde
Sweet Diva




------------------------------------------
A FINAL WORD...

Usually, when I perform a test, I try to contact the perfume house to get first-hand, genuine, authentic infos.
In most cases, I get no answer at all. In a few cases, I receive some elusive, vague answers. Very rarely I obtain really useful infos.
Well, I'm glad to say -in this case- I contacted "Robert Piguet Parfums", and I found an immensely kind person, very friendly, open-hearted and enthusiast, who gave me all infos I needed.
Thank you very much.



Read More
Posted in Fracas, Givaudan, Robert Piguet, vintage perfumes | No comments
Older Posts Home
Subscribe to: Posts (Atom)

Popular Posts

  • OPIUM: Vintage Bottles Parade.
    "It will be the Greatest, and we will call it  Opium "   (Yves Saint Laurent, 1976) A show trying to identify Opium bottles throug...
  • How to recognize CHANEL perfumes.
    (note: this method is valid only for bottles sporting the 4-numbers batch code) Chanel is one of the most difficult "Maisons", whe...
  • SAMSARA, the Legend.
    Hello! This is my first solo post at "Raiders of the Lost Scent" and the first chapter of a small bunch of fragrances that changed...

Categories

  • ad
  • advertisement
  • advertisements
  • Angel
  • Armani
  • Aromatics Elixir
  • Azzaro pour homme
  • Bandit
  • Barbarella
  • batch
  • Batch code
  • batch codes
  • Batch-codes
  • Bleu de Chanel
  • Books
  • Boss
  • Bulgari
  • Cacharel
  • Calandre
  • Capucci
  • Caron Perfumes
  • carven.
  • Cerruti
  • Chanel
  • Chocolat
  • Christian Dior
  • cinema
  • Cinescent
  • Clinique
  • Courreges
  • DHI
  • Dior
  • Dior Homme Intense
  • Dior Homme Intense Parfum 2014
  • Diorling
  • Donna Karan
  • Eau de Parfum
  • Eau du Coq
  • Ex Machina.
  • Facebook
  • Fahrenheit
  • Fahrenheit Guide
  • Fleurs de Rocaille
  • Fracas
  • Fragrances
  • Fundamental
  • Gabriela Guidetti
  • GC-MS
  • GCMS
  • Genny
  • Gilda
  • Givaudan
  • Givenchy
  • Guerlain
  • Habanita
  • Hermes
  • Hermes reformulations batch codes
  • Infini
  • Instant Extreme
  • interview
  • J'adore
  • Jane Fonda
  • Jazz
  • Jean Patou
  • Jicky
  • Johnny Depp
  • Juliette Binoche
  • Knize Ten
  • Kouros
  • Krizia
  • La Nuit de l'Homme
  • Lancome
  • Lanvin
  • Laroche
  • Lauder
  • LIDG
  • LIDGE
  • LIDL
  • Lost in Translation
  • Luca Turin
  • M7
  • Miscellaneous
  • Missoni
  • Molinard
  • Moulin Rouge
  • Mugler
  • Muguet de Bonheur
  • News
  • niche perfumery
  • Opium
  • Paco Rabanne
  • Perfume Guide.
  • perfumes
  • Pierre Cardin
  • reformulation
  • reformulations
  • reformulations.
  • retro
  • review
  • review.
  • Reviews
  • Rita Hayworth
  • Rive Gauche
  • Robert Piguet
  • Robert Vadim
  • Rochas
  • Rubini
  • Samsara
  • scents
  • scientific approach
  • Serge Lutens
  • side-by-side test.
  • Smell Festival
  • Smelling
  • Spray
  • Steve McQueen
  • Strips
  • Ted Lapidus
  • Tests
  • Then&Now
  • Thoughts
  • Valentino
  • Van Cleef & Arpels
  • Vero Kern
  • Versace
  • Vetiver
  • vintage
  • vintage advertisement
  • vintage perfumes
  • vintage Pour un Homme
  • White Linen
  • Yatagan
  • YSL
  • YSL pour Homme
  • Yves Saint Laurent

Blog Archive

  • February 2017 (1)
  • December 2016 (2)
  • November 2016 (4)
  • October 2016 (1)
  • July 2016 (1)
  • June 2016 (1)
  • May 2016 (1)
  • April 2016 (3)
  • March 2016 (2)
  • February 2016 (1)
  • January 2016 (2)
  • December 2015 (2)
  • October 2015 (3)
  • September 2015 (2)
  • August 2015 (4)
  • July 2015 (4)
  • June 2015 (7)
  • May 2015 (6)
  • April 2015 (7)
  • March 2015 (6)
  • January 2015 (2)
  • December 2014 (3)
  • November 2014 (2)
  • August 2014 (1)
  • July 2014 (1)
  • May 2014 (2)
  • April 2014 (7)
  • March 2014 (13)
  • February 2014 (13)
  • January 2014 (10)
  • December 2013 (11)
  • November 2013 (17)
  • October 2013 (8)
Powered by Blogger.

Report Abuse

  • Home

About Me

niten
View my complete profile

Search This Blog